The context of my post might have been a little vague, I want to clarify it a bit more with an example. An example being: compromising on CPU/GPU performance to throw flashier lights on the system, that wouldn't go over all that well. There are other examples of areas that you don't compromise on as well such as PSU's. Using non-UL or non-TUV certified units that have not been independently tested for safety and reliability would be a disaster for mass-produced units. It's areas like these that we try to avoid compromising on because performance and reliability is not just a strong selling point, it's a big deal in general. The issue at hand, the context of the conversation we are having, is board firmware support and features that are brought about by said firmware.
As system integrators, we are held to a different standard to that of your average system builder. Much like you can't sell a toaster that can't toast, you can't sell a computer that can't compute. If it isn't stable enough to operate, that is a problem. As a result, stability & reliability comes first & foremost (after safety, of course). Then comes performance. This is the difficult part because performance can sometimes be a direct contradiction to stability. Do we enable multi-core enhancement and let all the cores turbo to 5ghz and squeeze out some higher benchmarking scores and gaming FPS but run into instability under AVX/heavy integer workloads? Or do we leave it off, let the default turbo boost push it to 4.7~ and settle with a stable system under every load? We have to choose the latter, because we can't anticipate how customers will use our system. Even though we slap "gaming" in the title, plenty of customers buy our systems for rendering, [email protected] and other workloads that fall outside of just the gaming umbrella. This means that during our qualification efforts, we need to keep this in mind.
Why am I bringing this up? Resizable BAR is still in a phase that is ironing out some issues. In some titles, you can see a 5-10% performance boost, but in others, you can see a 5-10% decrease in performance. You can also see an increase in average FPS but experience intense micro-stuttering (my personal experience with testing Borderlands 3). Releasing a BIOS with support for something that may not be entirely finished isn't exactly ideal, especially if they have to put it back into the oven until it's done, if you catch my drift. The same can be said of 11th gen Intel support. Right now, memory support on Z490 when using an 11th generation CPU is... sketchy, for a lack of better words. Anything higher than 3200 seems to break entirely regardless of single vs dual rank, 1DPC/2DPC, doesn't seem to matter if you're using SK Hynix, Samsung or Micron IC's either. I expect this to be fixed in subsequent BIOS updates, but right now, it's a bit of an issue.
So what does this mean? It means I am not comfortable releasing a BIOS in the current state, not until I am confident they won't cause any issues with our systems out in the wild, and that the G436 will perform as we originally designed it to (or better). I did not anticipate doing a BIOS update for these systems, mostly because I didn't anticipate many people being interested in this feature, but if you'll all give me some time to properly qualify the BIOS and put it through our test suite, I'll see what I can do. Remember, it's not exactly a simple process, a lot of back & forth is involved to iron out any potential issues, so turnaround might not be quick, but know that I'll be working on it. Once that is done, I'll have to come up with a guide on how to actually flash these boards, as it's not exactly the same as flashing a retail board, so there will be some additional reading to go along with it.
And @DMA , I want to be clear. There isn't a scenario in which you'll be left in the dark with your system, not getting any support. My being here, having this conversation with you now, is a contradiction to that notion. Our PowerSpec team consists of gamers & hardware enthusiasts like yourself and like you, we want these systems to perform as best they can. We just want them to be as stable and reliable as possible while doing so. I'll circle back to this thread once I have some more information on the status of a new BIOS. Until then, let me know if you guys experience any other issues with these systems and I'll gladly look into them.
I truly appreciate your reply as I'm sure many of the community here do as well. Your apparent sincerity to looking at a potential BIOS update to accommodate future firmware is welcome news because it sounded like the position of MC is to avoid any potential warranty claims by doing the least (in regards to updates) to avoid contributing to said warranty claims. On the other hand, had MC in fact used a retail board instead of the proprietary system integrators board then you (MC) would have relieved themselves of all of the aforementioned issues of developing a special BIOS just for "your" board. MSI would have done all that work already.
I could very well be wrong but I'm guessing that the majority of Power Spec Gaming rigs are indeed used for gaming and your average gamer is ALWAYS looking for even the slightest performance enhancement. I have built many computer systems over the years and the main reason for doing so was to avoid the proprietary issues that come from manufacturers such as Dell, HP, Compaq (yes, I owned one prior to their being acquired by HP and subsequently killed off) and a host of others. Those proprietary issues make upgrading virtually impossible. So you may understand why I was so disappointed to find out that the MOBO in the G436 was in fact, proprietary.
I don't mind having off brand memory modules (as I think the Neo Forza are a solid performer and a good value). And I don't mind having the lowest cost AIO that you could find as a CPU cooler, which in fact I've already had to replace due to, what turns out to be a common failure on these particular units (and don't get me started about how I should have brought in my new computer to sit in your service department for an unknown period of time while your techs try to figure out how or what to replace it with, as there are plenty of posts on this very forum discussing those outcomes.)
But a BIOS on a motherboard installed into a system advertised as a gaming rig that can't be updated is very disappointing. Especially when there appears to be what many would consider misleading at least, and outright false advertising at worst. I'm not accusing MC of false advertising but anybody with any legitimate objectivity would look at the system specs and think they are getting a retail board, or at the very least, a board that is capable of BIOS updates. The very fact that this discussion is even taking place is evidence of that.
So having said that, I am hopeful that MC will support BIOS updates on these MSI Z490 Plus motherboards in the future since MSI certainly won't. But honestly, I'm not going to hold my breath.
I started this whole thread. I was not aware it was an OEM motherboard. I chose PowerSpec because I thought it was all retail parts. I'm certainly not upset enough to demand anything, just disappointed.
They didn't put anything incorrect in the listing. It is described as "MSI Z490 Plus" and that is what it is. It is is not the "MSI MPG Z490 GAMING PLUS" that I thought they were using shorthand for. Ideally they would have added "OEM" or something to it to be more clear about it.
My original issue mostly went away with the suggested driver updates, it still ignores my mouse sometimes if I put it sleep and wake it up. Plugging it back in always works. At least I don't have to do it every time it boots any longer. So, thanks for the that tip.
Here are my experiences and thoughts, your mileage may vary- I do apprecaite any feedback or tips/tricks to get best system performance, I have bought pre-built computers and also have built my own with success, but do not claim to be any kind of expert here, and this post is not in order, I am typing in as thoughts come in:
First, I do also get the Graphical Output Error. I have same system G436 w/ Z490 Plus and EVGA 3070 Ultra. My motherboard also makes a terrible high pitched buzzing whine sound when it is under load, like when rendering or gaming. Very annoying.
I use Resolve V17 for video editing and found the NVIDIA studio drivers to be stable. I tried using the latest Geforce gaming drivers up to 465.89 but my system crashes so went back and did a clean install of the studio drivers.
As in the admin post above informed, a few percentage points won't make a difference in gaming. At 1440P and higher, its all GPU bound anyway, you likely will not notice performance gains. The EVGA new Precision X1 will apply the appropriate firmware update to your EVGA card.
For me, I always end up having to reboot, and reset the bios & XMP, and just plug the display port cable into a different port. Such a pain and wished I didn't buy this computer, but now I have no choice as they said I had 30 days to return it, but when I decided to return it, the receipt actually says 14 days for this and at that time it was already past 14 days. So feel like a fool. I wanted a 30 series GPU and newer gen Intel machine so I'm stuck with it. The GPU and CPU are what I most appreciate, and honestly dont care for RGB.
My system, not sure about the others here, had small stickers on the computer that say "Assembled from tested components - Complete System not tested." I have always used Dell systems in the past and never had any quality and performance issues like this. Frankly, I really did not have confidence with my purchase when I first took it out of the box and saw this, however I appreciate the transparency from PowerSpec.
Out of the box, the I immediately heard something loose inside, thought it was a loose screw or maybe some debris of plastic part, but couldn't find the source since it was deep inside the bottom, I wasn't going to start opening this thing up.
When I just plugged it in and hit the on button, nothing happened. (Imagine my disappointment already). Upon further inspection, I also noticed my GPU was half out of its PCIe slot. The system does not come with any foam filler inside, like other pre-built computers I've bought in past, before that will keep the GPU card and other card components in place, so I gently pushed it back in but found the card was not locking into place and it was still loose. I've built a computer before and know that especially for a card this large it should lock into the slot but it wasn't. The cable management was decent, however upon closer inspection, the 4 pin CPU power plug was not completely inserted and was crooked. I removed it and reinserted it and it locked into place
At this point, I was scared to try and power this up again, hoping I wouldn't need to drive back 2 hrs to the store, if it didn't, but miraculously it powered on and worked.
I then powered down, and since I already had the glass side off, I took off the other panel to expose the cables and try to find the loose part I heard earlier. I ended up finding the piece after turning the system upside down/sideways and it fell out, it was actually a plastic tab thingie, I could not identify at first where it would go or where it broke off of, then after examining my older i7 system that has a GTX 1060, i found out its that the part of PCe slot that locks the GPU card into place. I removed the GPU card and was able to reinsert the tab thing into the end of the PCIe slot, and good thing it wasn't broken, I was able to reinsert the GPU card which locked into place magically. My wife would not able been able to lift this system, shes small and this system is quite heavy already.
MC has better prices than anyone locally (now that Fry's is gone) and the guys in the store are really nice and helpful, but these pre-built systems seem to be just slapped together and if you are not tech savy person, and don't know how to work with a computer BIOS, this will really make you upset and want to throw your computer out the window. Seriously we pay well over two thousand dollars for this product and to get the advertised performance we still need to enable XMP manually and do my own tech trouble shooting. Again, for a non-computer tech person they wouldn't know to do this, and would not realize they are not getting the performance out of their computer as advertised.
For future upgrades, I'd like to buy a 11th gen Intel CPU but no idea if this system can take it, one would just have to buy the CPU and roll the dice and return if it doesn't which would really be a waste of time, effort, and money.
The newer Chinese bios that the OP mentioned shows that it has Re-Bar function support and the USA MSI Pro site Bios shows support for 11th gen. For those of us who want to update Bios I do understand some frustrations of where you are coming from and wanting a newer support bios.
I do understand the risks involved with BIOS updates, and for the "Power users", I do hope there is a bios update as there is a clear need for it. I mean thats why its called a PowerSpec right? =)
Edit: adding link to this helpful post on trouble shooting that I found (kind of after the fact, but nonetheless helpful)
I also purchased this system not knowing it was an OEM board that could not be updated like a retail board and as been noted above I would have gladly paid for an upgrade so I could update when needed. I have been scratching my head for days wondering WHY we cannot update the bios that the consumer boards use (there are two for the retail version since the middle of last year) AND NOW I KNOW WHY! This machine has been nothing but trouble since I purchased it. Programs crash to desktop randomly. System BSODs. The current bios I am SURE is responsible since all of the other motherboards in this class HAVE an update as of last month to iron out issues with the 3000 series video cards. I am very VERY upset to learn there is no bios update and I will be watching VERY closely to see if there are more posts and potentially considering a lawsuit should MC not come up with some reasonable solutions ASAP.
Hey all, I've been doing some research on this topic and found a reddit thread where a user found the msi support page for this particular mobo on the chinese msi site.
The latest bios on the official Chinese MSI support site has resizable bar support so I installed with no issues and my system is working fine with removable bar enabled. Why MC didn't just grab the official MSI drivers is beyond me.
Also, be aware that updating your bios may remove your Windows license key. Luckily my MS account has a license key registered to it so I didn't run into any issues, but your mileage my vary.
Hope this helps!
I purchased powerspec because I thought it used off the it used off the shelf components, which was apparently true at one time.
My first powerspec (forgot model but it was a 1070 graphics card with Asrock standard motheboard) used an off-the shelf motherboard, and bios, which is what I wanted.
FWIW, I do not update bios, unless I need to. I do keep my systems for a long time and occasionally bios updates hep.
Apparently the G436 uses a proprietary motherboard(MSI Z490 Plus) with a name very similar to an off-the-shelf motherboard (Z490 GAMING PLUS).
This proprietary motherboard does not have bios updates available, or updated drivers available. If I had know this, I would have built my own system.
I notice that there is now a Powerspec G437 that does not even specify a specific motherboard (Intel Z490).
So long, Powerspec, you have just eliminated the main reason I buy your systems: A pre assembled PC with all off-the-shelf components. I can be sure that everything works out-of -the box, with a one-stop warranty, and years later, upgrade easily, without bios upgrade issues.
At least Powerspec still uses standard form-factor parts. When will that stop?
@kdasilva005 : I would love to use this BIOS but it is for the "Z-490 Gaming Edge Wifi" and I am concerned it may cause some issues with our boards. Are you certain this is the one you used?
Never mind. I see there is one in the link (the correct one for the Z-490 Plus) and another in the Reddit link that is the one I was referring to which is for the Gaming Edge Wifi. The one for our boards is 7C98V15. Thanks!
@DMA I would be careful with that motherboard link. It starts off as CN.msi and not MSI......Is your board the MSI MPG Z490 gaming Edge Wifi? Key abbreviation is MPG.
Is this Motherboard compatible with the new Gen 11 Intel CPU's?
I have successfully updated the BIOS using the 7C98v15 update via M-Flash and I have enabled Re-size BAR Support. I have not yet been successful at updating the VBIOS on my graphics card, which is the MSI Ventus 3XOC model.
Below is the text file from the 7C98v15 download.
Z490-S01 / Z490 PLUS / Z490 PLUS WIFI (MS-7C98) V1.5 BIOS Release
1. This is AMI BIOS release
2. This BIOS fixes the following problem of the previous version:
- Update ME 14.1
- Support Re-size BAR function to enhance GPU performance including the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3000 series and others.
- Improved compatibility of PCIe-based devices.
[Below information is Chinese language]
A. AMI BIOS ¥¿¦¡µo¦æ
- §ó·s ME 14.1
- ¤ä´© Re-size BAR ¥\¯à¥H±j¤Æ¥]§t nVidia GeForce RTX 3XXX ¤Î¨ä¥LGPU ®Ä¯à
- §ïµ½ PCIe ¸Ë¸m¬Û®e©Ê
C. §ó·s¤é´Á: ¤½¤¸2021¦~02¤ë18¸¹
I have this same board in my G436, and the 7C98v15 BIOS download from the above link works perfectly. Unzip it to a USB drive, and use the M-Flash utility in the BIOS to update. And the BIOS is in English, in case anyone was wondering.
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